tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post2972558165973024604..comments2024-03-17T16:57:40.065+13:00Comments on Library Matters: Be careful what you wish for : teenagers in the libraryJoann Ransomhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-6378848220066961042010-07-27T20:18:24.332+12:002010-07-27T20:18:24.332+12:00Penny: yep. Maori wardens helped us manage Shannon...Penny: yep. Maori wardens helped us manage Shannon library behaviour during the last school holidays.Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-83115952935939461172010-07-26T13:12:17.047+12:002010-07-26T13:12:17.047+12:00Hi Joann
One other thing to consider doing is aler...Hi Joann<br />One other thing to consider doing is alerting any Maori Wardens in your area to do the odd visit too. I know you've got the security guy (Great!) but it might be good to have that presence too.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822323208525809653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-91948412255783692082010-07-25T21:32:20.174+12:002010-07-25T21:32:20.174+12:00Kate: Thank you for sharing your experiences. I kn...Kate: Thank you for sharing your experiences. I know learning to manage the influx of naughty kids is a relatively new phenomenon in NZ libraries who have only over the last couple of years or so started offering free public internet through Aotearoa Peoples Network Kaharoa. Have you ever written up your experiences into a paper? I'd love to learn more and I bet others would to.<br /><br />Cheers Jo.Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-50615829178224706372010-07-25T17:31:38.728+12:002010-07-25T17:31:38.728+12:00Thanks for your response. To be honest I had not c...Thanks for your response. To be honest I had not considered pay inequity which, while unacceptable, I now realise is an obvious factor.<br />Quite possibly my own experiences represent isolated incidents and I am mistaken to take these as reflective of an ingrained trend. I am heartened by your take on the matter and will continue to encourage other men to consider libraries as a career choice.<br />It's good to hear the security guard is working out, though deeply regrettable that the need has arisen.....a sad reflection of our culture that the presence of an authority figure is required for a sense of order to be maintained.<br />I hope it all works out. By all accounts you and your staff do a sterling job at Levin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-34096533084451261282010-07-25T09:53:55.308+12:002010-07-25T09:53:55.308+12:00Anonymous: Gender equity/inequity is certainly a ...Anonymous: Gender equity/inequity is certainly a topic often debated within the library profession, although not from the angle that you take. Often the debate is framed around the pay gap, and how librarianship as a feminised profession has a lower wage level that equivalent jobs.<br /> <br />What you will also find, is that while it is true there are fewer men in librarianship, what men there are occupy a large number of senior roles within the profession.<br /><br />“Conversations I have had with other male library workers have substantiated my intuition that, to a certain degree, almost on an unconscious level, gender inequity within library services is actively perpetuated and men are only begrudgingly welcome.”<br /><br />I can’t say I have ever encountered that. The lack of males is more to do with pay than anything else. When I have had discussions with other librarians on this topic, we usually turn to how to encourage more men into the profession.<br /><br />“Call me a traditional fool, but I think thuggery in libraries would occur less often if there were more men around.”<br /><br />I don’t know. Like all things it depends on the person. I think it has less to do with the gender of the librarians, and more to do with how the profession as a whole is viewed.Michael Parryhttp://diligentroom.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-8986064589788310682010-07-24T22:02:28.753+12:002010-07-24T22:02:28.753+12:00Hi there anonymous,
Thought provoking post - than...Hi there anonymous,<br /><br />Thought provoking post - thanks.<br /><br />We have 2 permanent male employees plus 2 male student workers. I consciously seek out men when I can, but there aren't that many in the profession! As it is neither of our blokes are libarians although 1 is a teacher.<br /><br />Security guard is a Maori gentleman, well over 50, knows half the town and chats to everyone who enters the library like they old friends. He chatting to some of our rascals - obviously knew them - and we have had 2 days of perfect behaviour. He understands that I need him to be personable and welcoming and chatty and that a certain level of youthful exerberance is fine.Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-89428775200090323072010-07-24T20:16:48.602+12:002010-07-24T20:16:48.602+12:00Having recently trained and entered the library jo...Having recently trained and entered the library job market I have been constantly amazed by the elephant that most library services seem to have in the room.<br />The elephant I refer to is gender inequity. Within some library services the ratio is incredible, and I would say, unhealthily so. It is easy to say "there are no trained males applying for positions" which is probably true, but only to a point. Conversations I have had with other male library workers have substantiated my intuition that, to a certain degree, almost on an unconscious level, gender inequity within library services is actively perpetuated and men are only begrudgingly welcome. <br />It's an issue worth having a good objective look at. <br />Call me a traditional fool, but I think thuggery in libraries would occur less often if there were more men around. What do others think? <br />Incidentally, what gender is the security guard?<br />Apologies for the anonymous posting but its a small country and politic prevails.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-83603050019369050682010-07-23T15:37:13.921+12:002010-07-23T15:37:13.921+12:00Security guard now in place, but I am quite keen t...Security guard now in place, but I am quite keen that we don't do this too heavy because we still want the kids feeling welcome.<br /><br />Duties will include:<br />* maintaining a presence in the public areas,<br />* greeting visitors to the library with a smile, nod or suchlike,<br />* sweeping through the building on a regular basis paying particular attention to the public internet areas and the quiet ‘rooms’,<br />* ensuring the building is empty of public at close of business,<br />* escorting staff to their cars after dark.Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-22428832838149763902010-07-23T14:03:33.549+12:002010-07-23T14:03:33.549+12:00Hi - this sounds so familiar. We have been working...Hi - this sounds so familiar. We have been working through the same situation for years in my library. Staff had been burning out and other customers had almost stopped coming- this was with a security guard! In the last 18 months we have almost turned this situation around entirely. Here's what we did: <br />1. Replace the security guard with youth workers from a local trust who were already working with the same kids in another context. <br />2. Decide in the team that we did want the teenagers in the library.<br />3. Get some help and training from other people (we got training from someone from a high school working with the kids who were excluded from the classroom).<br />4. Agree some standard approaches to different situations including some consistent language and debrief procedures.<br />5. Get ruthless with trepassing the kids, but put a short review date on the trespass notice. Depending on what they've done I review after 3 or 6 months (or less if they just need a shock). A review involves them coming to see me for an interview and I do require an apology. To come back in they have to see me and if they have been attempting to come in during the trespass period or have been causing problems immediately outside the library then I push the date out. I will also send a copy of the trespass notice with a letter to their parents.<br /><br />We are currently working on linking kids we have trespassed with individual staff members who will chat to them when they see them around outside the library - the aim is that when they come back in we have already restored some kind of relationship. <br /><br />I have tons of information on this if anyone wants any more. Just let me know.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00445864308712512700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-67185123072020788752010-07-23T12:58:45.142+12:002010-07-23T12:58:45.142+12:00Adding a timestamped ETA to the top or bottom of y...Adding a timestamped ETA to the top or bottom of your post is perfectly acceptable and likely to be seen by more people than just in the comment thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with strike-out/parentheses within the text either, as long as it's done in a way that adds clarification rather than removes evidence of what was originally said - but that's up to personal preference.<br /><br />On the original topic - yours is definitely not the first library to have this dilemma. I agree a security guard (or I think I heard one library used a community worker? it'd have to be someone comfortable with conflict obviously) is a good idea though as Debbie suggests the attitude of the person is vital to balancing safety with welcomingness (for lack of a better word). Good luck!Deborah Fitchetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12058960370520958818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-38190177923578942212010-07-23T12:05:38.300+12:002010-07-23T12:05:38.300+12:00Yep - bad choice of descriptors - I could say I wa...Yep - bad choice of descriptors - I could say I was really really upset at the time,but I genuinely didn't mean anything racist at all. I think of 'Bros' as being hip and cool and the 'skinny white boys' as being the polar opposite (geeky, quiet, boardgamers. <br /><br />I'd quite like to change 'white boys' and 'Bros' actually to claer up any misunderstanding but I think its really bad form to materially change a post once its gone wild .... I'll see if this explanation and sincere apology for causing offence suffices :)Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-28124008089477116662010-07-23T11:09:06.464+12:002010-07-23T11:09:06.464+12:00Talk to the community youth constable. We have had...Talk to the community youth constable. We have had similar issues at Woodville, and have trespassed one girl permanently.<br /><br />We also had one of the local youth social workers making the library as a regular stopping point for a while.<br /><br />Hang in thereMichael Parryhttp://diligentroom.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-39976989315891077502010-07-23T10:48:56.820+12:002010-07-23T10:48:56.820+12:00Have been mulling over this since last night Jo. E...Have been mulling over this since last night Jo. Every librarian's worst nightmare. I'm going to say something I never thought a geek such as myself would say... but sometimes I wish we didn't have the library computers. And yet they are so important to have as well because they are so vital to many of the community (digital divide etc etc). So we are caught in a catch22 situation. Imagine that scenario in a little library where there is only you or you and a junior in the library. So I agree with Debbie that the right kind of security guard would be a good idea. It is only a band aid in the wider picture of the issue but down at grassroots library level we cannot do a lot more. It was interesting to hear @ranginui's take on the issue because that hadn't even occurred to me when I read the post.<br />We are evolving very rapidly in the library sector and we must not lose sight of our vision for libraries.<br />So make the library a safe welcoming environment because I feel that is one of our most important tasksAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13373865987498830628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-31034419011373276562010-07-23T00:59:53.901+12:002010-07-23T00:59:53.901+12:00Jo, thanks for posting this tragic story. It seems...Jo, thanks for posting this tragic story. It seems to me that you are on the right track to get adequate and appropriate security in place so the young people who want to use the library for their fun & learning can do so safely. You can't let the bullies ruin all the work you've all put into your super library.Ross Beckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-22155980434567467242010-07-22T23:16:28.460+12:002010-07-22T23:16:28.460+12:00Thanks Debbie - I needed the positive spin around ...Thanks Debbie - I needed the positive spin around hiring a security guard, Cheers Jo.Joann Ransomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108406808852766646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-452595030335482530.post-52678348693465711492010-07-22T22:48:49.400+12:002010-07-22T22:48:49.400+12:00Hiring a security guard - one with a positive atti...Hiring a security guard - one with a positive attitude who will get to know the kids and earn their respect in most cases- will go a long way. The staff will feel safer and will be able to concentrate on the jobs they were hired to do. The rule-abiding kids will know that you have taken another step toward creating an environment where they can concentrate on library activities like reading and homework. And those kids' parents will breathe a sigh of relief, knowing there is a certified security guard looking out for their children, as well as a library administration that knows excellence in public library service also means taking steps (read: spending the money) needed toward the provision of a suitable, safe facility.Debbie Engelhardtnoreply@blogger.com